Sky News – Speers Tonight

Interviewer:

David Speers

E&OE

David Speers:

With me first tonight Liberal Senator Zed Seselja, the Assistant Minister for Social Services and Multicultural Affairs, and Labor MP Dr Anne Aly:, the first Muslim women elected to Federal Parliament, a very good evening to both of you, thank you for joining us. I want to start on what these challenges are that we’re facing, particularly when it comes to the economy and the budget. Let’s start with how to get the economy back into positive territory, Zed Seselja to you first, how do we get business investing, how do we get them hiring, how do we get wages to pick up as well. What is the government’s action plan?

Minister Seselja:

Well a couple of things, you painted a bleak picture there David, I don’t share that bleak picture.

David Speers:

[interrupting] where’s the positives to it?

Minister Seselja:

Well there’s a number of things. I know within the jobs data, if we look just within the last two months, I think there’s something like 85000 increase in full time employment so just in the last couple of months we’re seeing that in full time employment. There was been 500000 jobs overall created since we came to office so there is a good story though obviously a lot more to do. I’d say a couple of things in term of economic growth, it is our absolute focus and whilst the last quarter figures were not what we’d hoped, I would expect that that’s likely to be a blip when we look at the trend, when we look at the fact that we’re still doing better than most comparable economies but we don’t take that for granted at all David. So things like our company tax plan, things like the ABCC which have gone through the parliament, things like the defence industry, our innovation and science agenda, of course the impact of our free trade agreement now starting to flow through and will further flow through in years to come. Our middle income tax cuts, there’s a range of measures that we either have taken or are taking and will be rolling out in the coming year in particular that all designed to grow the economy, to grow jobs.

David Speers:

[interrupting] There’s no need to change tact is what you’re saying. The things that you’ve done already are sufficient to see things turn around or avoid that double negative quarter, a technical recession?

Minister Seselja:

Well I’m not that only the things we’ve done are important, the things we have on the agenda are important as well, including most particularly tax cuts, and starting with small business tax cuts. We’re talking about small businesses between…

David Speers:

[interrupting] Well I want to come back to that because there’s…

Minister Seselja:

[interrupting]Well it is a very important…

David Speers:

[interrupting] Indeed, indeed, let me bring in Anne Aly: though, what does Labor think needs to be done to, just getting back to this question, getting the economy going getting businesses investing and hiring and pushing up wages?

Anne Aly:

Well I think it’s all very well to talk about all the little incremental things that the government has put in, but I know for a fact when I go out and I talk to people on the street that it is bleak, the situation is very bleak. We’ve lost 90000 jobs, the budget deficit has tripled and the net debt has blown out by a $100 billion. Now when we have a government that prides itself on its economic management credentials then I expect, and many Australians would expect, that these are the measures by which this government is held to account. So one thing that we don’t need is we don’t need a 50 billion tax cut to big business…

David Speers:

[interrupting] All right Anne, we’ll come to that. What do we need? What do we need?

Anne Aly:

Well we need to create jobs: that’s the first thing. We need to invest in apprenticeships and traineeships, we need to invest in the TAFE sector, bring that back. If I could tell you how many I’ve spoken to who cannot find apprenticeships and traineeships for their children, for their young people. We need a vision for the future, not small incremental changes that aren’t going to get us anywhere, that aren’t being felt on the ground. We need a vision for our future, we need to attract more business to invest in Australia and we need to grow Australia’s new economies, new areas where we can have growth. Now I believe that Australia has a huge resource in its people… Sorry?

Minister Seselja:

[Interrupting] Could I response? I mean, if I can respond. I mean, Anne, you talk about the debt, you know. Labor took a plan to the election which would have seen us $16 billion more in deficits, notwithstanding the fact that you’re planning on increasing taxes which of course is not a traditional way of growing the economy. You talk about small business but you want to deny small business the tax cut that’s on the table right now which would help them to grow…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] Ok, well let’s talk about this company tax because yes, according to Treasury, it will deliver some growth but only after 10 years and only 1% growth. Now Zed Seselja, is that really worth the $48 billion investment to achieve that?

Minister Seselja:

Well what we’re seeing is a permanent increase in the size of the economy, now you don’t have to just take my word for it David, and virtually every other economist who comments on the impact of company tax cuts, you can take Bill Shorten’s word for it when in 2011 he said that if you cut company tax it leads to more jobs and it leads to higher wages and every economist will tell you that. This is a fundamental difference now between the Labor Party and the Coalition: the Labor Party went to the last election without any economic strategy at all, now they can sit there and bag out company tax cuts when they know that they create more jobs and they create higher wages which is what Bill Shorten said and certainly what all economists say.

David Speers:

Well ok, but if the government can only get through part of this company tax cut plan, only as Nick Xenophon, for businesses up to 10 million dollars, do we get any growth out of it then?

Minister Seselja:

Well certainly we do but we obviously want the whole plan…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] Well what do we get out of it? What’s the…

Minister Seselja:

[Interrupting] Well I don’t have the figures compartmentalised between the 2 to 10 million but we’re talking about something like 800000 businesses that benefit here David so if we all agree, if all economists agree that when you lower company taxes you actually see more investment…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] Well most economists to be fair are saying it’s really only when you give it to the big companies that you do see a growth benefit. So it gets back to this question; given the state the budget’s in, is it worth cutting company taxes just for small and mid-sized businesses if we’re really not going to see much growth?

Minister Seselja:

Well if you’re arguing that we should only give it to large businesses and not small businesses I don’t agree with that. We certainly believe that it’s important, we see it across the board, now we’re starting with small businesses and we see when we see things like the instant asset write off which would be extended for business between 2 and 10 million dollars under this plan, that that does lead to them investing more, it does lead to, the lower company tax does lead to them taking on more employees, and if you want people to have opportunities, government doesn’t create these jobs. Government sets the conditions and business, small business, medium business, and large business…

David Speers:

[interrupting] Anne Aly, since the government announced this plan earlier in the year we’ve seen Donald Trump elected and he’s saying he will take the company tax rate in the US much lower. Theresa May in the UK, same thing. Do we need to remain globally competitive to attract that foreign investment by cutting company taxes?

Anne Aly:

Look I think we do but I don’t think we need to be cutting company taxes for big companies that already aren’t paying their fair share of taxes and I think Australians all around know this. They know that there are big companies out there that aren’t paying their fair share of taxes and as you said…

David Speers:

[interrupting] But there are plenty that are and they’re the ones that generate the jobs and growth.

Anne Aly:

This 50 billion dollar tax cut is not going to generate jobs and growth in the near future. I’ve got people at my door at my office who are being let off work now, today. We need to create a future for these people and we need to do that but investing in Australia.

David Speers:

Yeah but Labor’s plan is to invest in educational training or whatever it is. The pay off, the growth pay off for that is a lot further down the track.

Minister Seselja:

80 years down the track!

Anne Aly:

It’s still a future and it’s a future, we need vision, it’s all very well to make incremental changes and small incremental changes that make little differences now that we’ll see in 10 years’ time. But we need a vision for the future, we have so much talent and knowledge in this Australia and I see every day…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] But hang on, you’re saying you’ve got people saying right you “I want a job, I need a pay rise, I need to see some growth right now”, what is Labor is saying should happen right now?

Anne Aly:

We need to have retraining available for people and we need to put them into industries which are growing, no industries that are shrinking. We have a downturn in the mining industry but we have a wealth of information and a wealth of knowledge in Australia that a lot of the world looks to. We have some really cutting edge and smart knowledge here in Australia that we need to take advantage of, what we see instead is we see our young people in particular, our smart people, our qualified people, going overseas for work because they can’t find jobs here. So we need to be able to exploit our knowledge rather than give our knowledge and lose that knowledge, have a brain drain in Australia.

Minister Seselja:

So Anne, you talk about putting them into industries that are doing well, the only way you can get industries to do well is to have policies that support and lower taxes is one of the ways, less regulation is another way, and we’ve been doing that across the board. We got rid of the Carbon tax, of the Mining tax, so we can try and keep energy prices down. All of these inputs impact on investment, impact on industry, what you seem to be suggesting is, you know, there’s a plan to shove people into another industry that is doing well but no plan as to how you can encourage industries to grow.

David Speers:

Zed Seselja the government is now asking the productivity commission to look at the transition from the mining boom, how it’s hitting some regional towns and other areas particularly hard. What do you need to know that you don’t already know here?

Minister Seselja:

Well I think it’s very good to get a body like the productivity commission to do this kind of work but we’re not sitting back and just waiting for the productivity commission and not doing anything. All of our policies are geared towards improving outcomes, you know you can compare that to, for instance, the 50 [percent renewable energy target which Bill Shorten and the Labor Party…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] Well no, let’s just stick on the government for the moment.

Minister Seselja:

But that affects regional communities!

David Speers:

We’ve heard the Prime Minister tell us many times that it’s managing, that the government’s managing the transition from the mining boom but now, you need more research on the transition from the mining boom and how some are being left behind.

Minister Seselja:

Well I think looking at some of the particular impacts is important, we should always be arming ourselves with more information David but we’re certainly not sitting back and waiting for it. If you look at that transition, things like company tax cuts, the defence industry plan which will grow a lot of jobs and of course get a lot of innovation. We’ve got the science and innovation agenda which is about growing new jobs. A whole range of measures which are about, which are aimed at exactly that, a transitioning economy to make sure there are new opportunities.

David Speers:

Part of this inquiry, specifically going to look at 457 visa, temporary skilled migrant visas. Are they a problem in some areas? Both sides have been talking a bit about this. Anne Aly: you first, do you see 457s as a problem?

Anne Aly:

Absolutely, I think they are. Again I can go by what I see in my electorate and what people come to me with and the issues that they come to me with. And there are people with skills and training who aren’t getting jobs because employers are preferring 457s over them: they are cheaper, they don’t have to pay them the same rates. It is completely a problem, there needs to be an overhaul of the system, we need to go back and look at what we’re providing it for.

David Speers:

Are you willing to, you know, name those companies that are doing that? That are hiring 457 workers because they’re cheaper and easier than hiring an Aussie?

Anne Aly:

Well I wouldn’t be prepared to name them all right here and right now but there are quite a few and you know they’re in different industries as well.

David Speers:

Well this is the thing! We get this anecdotal view put by Labor, by the Unions, and by some certainly in the Government, by One Nation and so one that this is happening, that Australian’s are being undercut but no one is willing to call out very often the companies that are doing it. Zed Seselja, is it a problem in your view? The intake of 457s?

Minister Seselja:

Well a couple of points on that. One, we’ve seen a pretty significant reduction in the number of 457s from their peak when Bill Shorten was the relevant minister.

David Speers:

Well that was the mining boom?

Minister Seselja:

Well he says that, but some were coming in as McDonalds’ workers here in Canberra, they weren’t that related to the mining boom I wouldn’t have thought. There have been from time to time issues but we see it demand responsive so we need to make sure that it continues to be absolutely rigorous. 457s are important; I don’t think anyone would want to argue that getting rid of 457s would be a good thing for our economy…

David Speers:

[interrupting] Are they being abused though?

Minister Seselja:

Well look if there’s evidence of it, people can put it forward and it can be examined. I think it’s a pretty rigorous process, as I say it’s responded to the demand by seeing significantly less than there were a few years ago for various reasons. But you know, we certainly are alive to the concerns in some parts of the community, in some regional areas, and that’s why it’s always worth looking at it but I would just make that general point, it responds to demand, it does fill labour shortages and that’s what it’s designed to do. If it’s coming in and not filling Labor shortages then obviously you’d have to make sure that we get it right.

David Speers:

Let me come back to the budget problem, because we’ve got the midyear budget update Monday, we know the credit ratings agencies are watching like hawks and you know threatening to downgrade the triple A rating and so on. The government is blaming Labor for this, the Labor Party is blaming the government for this. And you know, you both do have ideas out there, whether it’s more spending cuts from the Government on the dole and family payments. Or from Labor, if it’s reigning in negative gearing and capital gains tax relief. For the sake of protecting that triple A rating, are you both willing to give a little bit of ground? Zed Seselja, would you be willing, for the sake of saving the triple A rating, to do at least something on negative gearing?

Minister Seselja:

Well we’ve got no plans to be attacking negative gearing…

David Speers:

[interrupting] Even if it means losing the triple A rating?

Minister Seselja:

But there’s not the choice. Remember what the Labor Party was proposing, it’s effectively a tax on investment. It would have a major impact…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] I wasn’t saying do what Labor’s done necessarily, but do something.

Minister Seselja:

But if you look at what we’ve done in terms of budget repair, yes we’ve focussed on the spending side, rightly so, and making sure we control spending is critical to that. Higher taxes tend to be a drag on economic growth and in the long run they don’t help you’re budget either. But we have done some things in the revenue space as well, sometimes that’s hard, we don’t like to see it, whether it’s things like fuel excise or tobacco taxes, or changes to superannuation that we’ve seen. So we haven’t been dogmatic and said we won’t but certainly our focus is on controlling spending far more than addressing the revenue side when, you know, the Labor Party is very much the opposite.

David Speers:

Ok, but the question of it is, you know, you’re not going to, for the sake of protecting, that you’d rather see the triple A credit rating go than touch negative gearing?

Minister Seselja:

No I wouldn’t like to see the triple A credit rating go but I think attacking negative gearing will not, fundamentally, fix your budget but what it will do is damage your economy and I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to support those kinds of policies.

David Speers:

Anne, equally for Labor, again to protect that triple A credit rating would you be willing to look at some of the spending cuts that the goverment has on the books and is trying to get through the senate?

Anne Aly:

Look I think Labor has put forward a very clear plan to protect the triple A credit rating from the risk that it’s currently facing and that involves our cut backs to negative gearing, it is a leaky hole in the tax bucket and I think it needs to be looked at and we do not agree with the 50 billion dollar tax cut, what essentially amounts to a 50 billion dollar tax cut to big business. Now it’s either those two or we risk the triple A rating. We’ve made that very clear all throughout our campaign and will continue to make that very clear.

David Speers:

But the government still wants to get through things like the four week wait for the dole for those under the age of 25. Labor’s saying no, Nick Xenophon is saying no. Again, if it meant protecting that triple A credit rating, would you shift on that at all?

Anne Aly:

You don’t grow the economy by punishing its most vulnerable. You don’t encourage spending and you don’t encourage trust and build trust in the institutions that people need to have trust in by attacking its most vulnerable. So absolutely no, I would certainly be against accepting this proposal of the 4 week wait.

David Speers:

All right…

Minister Seselja:

The four week wait is not just about budget repair, of course there are budget savings in it but it is also about making it clear that we don’t want school leavers going straight to the Centrelink office. That is actually a very reasonable…

Anne Aly:

[Interrupting] Then give them training!

Minister Seselja:

Well we do and in fact if you look at how this policy would work, it actually only applies to those who are job ready, so only around about half of those. So, I mean, the Labor Party is going down a path now where they will, where they don’t seem to want to make any serious changes to a welfare culture which has crept into parts of our community and it’s damaging. Not just damaging to the budget, it’s damaging to those individuals and to those communities because when you see a welfare dependent community you see a community that is not functioning as well as it should. Welfare should be a hand up, not a lifestyle.

Anne Aly:

Zed when I separated from my first husband I had a three old and a one year old and I wasn’t working and I went to a Centrelink office that was the only choice I had. I didn’t have a single cent to feed myself or my children and they told me I had to wait 5 weeks. I will never forget experience. I will always stand up for those who are most vulnerable in our society because that it what social security, that is what Centrelink is there for, as a social net for those who need it. And I will not punish those people!

Minister Seselja:

It doesn’t apply to single mothers. It doesn’t apply to single mothers. It applies to job ready, job ready school leavers and others so that they don’t go straight onto the dole, so they don’t go straight to the Centrelink office. It’s not an unreasonable [inaudible]

Anne Aly:

[Interrupting] It would’ve been the same situation if I wasn’t a single mother. Would’ve been the same situation if I wasn’t a single mother, I wanted to work, I needed to work, I just need that help at that time. And I won’t deny people that help at that time, I’m happy for my taxpayer dollars to go to help our most vulnerable.

Minister Seselja:

But you go further and you won’t support measures where people refuse to take jobs, you won’t support measures that would actually see some sort of consequence of that so you’ve got people refusing to take jobs, they are being paid for by the taxpayer, and the Labor party says there should be no consequences to that. That’s not the most vulnerable…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] All right, I don’t think we’re going to get agreement on this. I want to take a quick break because I want to move away from the Budget and the Economy and we’ll focus on, Zed Seselja, your portfolio area of multicultural affairs, and Anne Aly clearly has some views on this as well. And look at how we’re going with refugee resettlement because there’s been more Syrians resettled just this week in Tasmania, do stay with us.

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]

David Speers:

We’re talking tonight with Liberal Senator Zed Seselja and Labor MP Anne Aly. I want to turn to the refugee intake. Remember just before Tony Abbott was replaced as leader, he announced that we’ll take in 12000 refugees from Syria, from the conflict zone there. Zed Seselja, as the Assistant Minister for Multicultural Affairs, you were in Tasmania this week welcoming some of those Syrian refugees. How many now, Australia wide, out of that 12000 have been settled here.

Minister Seselja:

Well David the latest figures I have are around 7800 have arrived in Australia under the additional 12000. And there’s about 9600 visas that have been granted and I think that’s growing by the day. SO we’re very much making our through that, it was great to welcome some humanitarian entrants in Hobart this week, to hear some of their stories, people who have, some people who literally left their homes with nothing but the clothes on their back and maybe a few identification papers. It was heart wrenching but at the same time very, I was very grateful that we’re able to provide them a safe place and certainly they were very grateful that they were to come to Australia.

David Speers:

Well when you see the scenes this week of Aleppo, the ultimate end of the fight for Aleppo, which has just been a terrible end as the whole fight has been over the last four or so years. You can understand why it must be, you know, such a relief for them to be in Australia. There have been concerns though; well there was the Immigration Minister Peter Dutton expressing concerns not long ago about the 1970s resettlement of refugees from Lebanon. Are we getting it right when it comes to resettling Syrian refugees. Anne Aly, I’ll ask you first about this, do you think we’re getting it right, is there more that we could or should be doing?

Anne Aly:

I think we have to look at what are the measures that we use to assess whether or not we’re well on resettlement and that to me comes down to whether or not people who are resettled in Australia are able to fully participate in society at an economic, political, and social level. So can they get jobs for example, you know, are they engaged in politics, do they have trust in their institutions, are their kids going to school? These kinds of things and I think that when we look at those measures as opposed to measures that are around you know, whether or not there assimilating, to use that term, I think then we can start to look at our successes in resettling groups of people in the past.

David Speers:

Yeah, well that’s true isn’t it Zed Seselja? Finding jobs, finding community connections, is so important to assimilate?

Minister Seselja:

Well without a doubt, and a big part of my job is looking after settlement services. Obviously there’s the screening immigration does and I think they’ve been very cautious with the 12000 coming out of Syria and Iraq.

David Speers:

So they do all the health and security checks?

Minister Seselja:

That’s right. But once they come here, it’s a very generous settlement scheme and I think we do it better than almost any country on earth in terms of the level of it, and in terms of what they have access to. Certainly we’re undertaking a bit of reform program because whilst I think we’re done it well, there are some gaps, I think certainly workforce participation among some groups is not as high as I would like and the government would like. Our focus in on English language, making sure we’re looking at how we can reform the adult migrant English program but then also engagement in the workforce and engagement in broader communities. We’ve got a careers pathway pilot so we’re looking at how we can plug in humanitarian entrants into the various, obviously there’s job active, looking at how they can plug in to where they can find jobs and give them the kind of support that they need. We’re going through a pretty rigorous change to our processes, that’s all about outcomes and one of those key outcomes is employment.

David Speers:

As you both know though there’s a pretty strong sentiment in parts of Australia that we’re taking too many refugees, particularly refugees from places like Syria and Iraq. Pauline Hanson has a strong view that we should be banning all Muslim immigration, not just refugee intake but Muslim immigration generally. Anne Aly: what do you think drives that sentiment and how do you counter it?

Anne Aly:

I think that’s political opportunism, there’s no other word for it. It’s honing in on people’s grievances and they’re very real grievances and they’re very real frustrations and laying the blame somewhere where that blame shouldn’t be laid and this is why I had such a problem with Minister Dutton’s comments about a whole generation of people that came in the 1970s, particularly since his comments weren’t even about the people that we took in but generations of Lebanese, second and third generation Lebanese, who were born and raised here. So, you know, I think this is political opportunism at its worst and I certainly know that for me the majority of people that I come into contact with, the majority of people who speak to me don’t hold those views, Australia is a very welcoming country and I agree with Senator Seselja, we have a very effective and a very successful settlement program which is why we don’t have the same problems that they have in some parts of Europe and we need to hold on to that, we need to maintain that.

David Speers:

Yeah, well, Zed Seselja I’ll let you defend the Minister, Peter Dutton. I mean he did clarify, I think, those comments about Lebanese refugees but do you share the concern that he did raise?

Minister Seselja:

Well, to counter what Anne said, he specifically did not talk about whole generations, he specifically said that he believed that most Lebanese Muslims, the vast majority of Lebanese Muslims, have made a solid contribution to our society so he was very clear.

Anne Aly:

[Interrupting] He said that as an afterthought!

Minister Seselja:

No he didn’t.

Anne Aly:

[Interrupting] Yeah, he did

Minister Seselja:

He talked about some well documented failures in screening at the time and I think that that has been well documented and certainly in some of those failings. We don’t intend on making those same mistakes again, I think it’s important that we learn from issues that have occurred in the past and we certainly want to make sure there’s proper screening and that is important, that’s what we’re doing. But we also want to make sure that that engagement with the broader community is there and we’ve all got a responsibility to do that. People arriving in Australia have a responsibility and we take out responsibility as a government very very seriously in this space. I agree that we are a very welcoming nation, there’s no doubt about it. I think that when people raise these concerns, I think we should respectfully listen to them and engage them in dialogue, not write them off as being bigots or xenophobic because I think for the most part, you know, people are going to put forward their views and I think we respect their views and we make sure that our policies are as successful as possible so that we can bring the entire nation with us which of course border security is one of the really important things that helps us underpin a successful migrant and humanitarian…

David Speers:

[Interrupting] Just give us a bit of practicable idea, just getting back to the Syrian refugees, what is actually done for a family, if we can stick to one particular family, you were there in Tasmania this week, they arrive, what do they get? What’s provided?

Minister Seselja:

So a range of things, so, I mean I’ve welcomed there at the Airport here in Canberra in the past and you get to see a little bit of it. Effectively, they get referred, they get a sort of a service that helps them tap in to various supports, obviously in many cases there’s going to be some welfare support, healthcare, getting a Medicare card, getting tapped in to the local school if they’ve got young kids, job active, so making sure there’s opportunities to look for work and find work and English language, that’s another really critical part of it. So you look at all of those aspects, I mean if you compare us to the US who take less per capita but more in actual numbers than we do in terms of humanitarian entrants, there’s virtually nothing like that in the US in terms of what we provide. So it is generous, we do take it very very seriously, there’s a responsibility both for those coming and for us in welcoming them and as I say I think we do it pretty well but there are some areas where we’re looking to improve.

David Speers:

Let me, just before I let you both go, ask you about what’s been the big story today: Eddie Obeid in NSW, I don’t want to ask you specifically about him but his case arose from the corruption watchdog in NSW, ICAC, really digging in to his misdeeds. It again raises the question: why don’t we have any sort of federal corruption body, like ICAC and like other bodies in other states and jurisdictions? Anne Aly, do you think there is a need for something like this federally?

Anne Aly:

Yes I do. I have a particular interest in corruption and I know that in countries where corruption, particularly political corruption, is left unchecked, that it does a lot of damage and I believe that the judge in passing his sentence today said that the damage was done to political confidence and the confidence of people in political system so I think that that’s something that we need to treasure, that’s something to protect and that’s something that we need to work on here in Australia in growing that confidence of individuals and groups in society to the political process. So, yes, I think that, I would welcome one for sure.

David Speers:

All right. And Zed Seselja, luckily we don’t have a big problem with political corruption in Australia compared to some other countries but we can’t take that for granted, what do you think, is a Federal ICAC style body a good idea?

Minister Seselja:

Well I haven’t seen a case made for it David, I mean I think you’re right to say that we haven’t seen instances of corruption in the Federal system, certainly that I’m aware of. I don’t believe that we have a problem with corruption in the Federal Parliament, now if there were issues to emerge, then it may well be that I would change my view but I haven’t heard a case put of evidence of corruption in the Federal Parliament that would necessitate a Federal ICAC.

David Speers:

All right we better get to a break. Zed Seselja, Anne Aly, I appreciate both of you joining us tonight and a good look at how 2016 politically is coming to an end. Appreciate that, thank you.

Minister Seselja:

Thanks very much David thanks Anne.

Anne Aly:

Thank you David, thank you, Merry Christmas!